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【翻译Quora上一篇问答】中国是否正在面临一次银行危机(谈到房地产) by phoebeDD on 2016-10-04

Is China really facing a banking crisis? What are its origins?
(中国是否正在面对一次银行危机?其根源又是什么?)



According to a recent article titled China facing full-blown banking crisis, world's top financial watchdog war
ns published in the Telegraph:
(根据近期电讯文章报道:“世界顶级金融观察者发出警告:中国正在面临全面的银行危机”)
China has failed to curb excesses in its credit system and faces mounting risks of a full-blown banking crisis
(中国已对债务违约失去控制,他们正在面对随之而来的全面性银行危机)
(中国债务/GDP 占比图)


Financial Crises

International Economics

The Economy

China

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Robin Daverman, Dealmaker
Written Sep 27


Ah, but maybe you want to look around a bit and see how China’s total debt is compared with other economies, like this?
(你可能想看看其他经济体与中国的债务情况相比是怎么样的,如下图)

(G10债务分布图)
If you put China’s data on this chart, it will be somewhere around Canada and New Zealand. Guess Which Country Has Debt Of Nearly 1000% Of GDP... Shocking, isn’t it?
如果你将中国的数据插入上图进行比较的话,中国的数据大约会在加拿大和新西兰之间。猜猜看哪个国家债务大约是自己GDP的10倍....(英国)非常震惊吧
UK has almost 1000% Debt-to-GDP ratio, compared with China’s < 300% Debt-to-GDP ratio, mostly because of that over-sized financial debt - at the end of the day, the government must stand behind it. On top of that, the UK has no resource to sell, hardly any industry left, going through a divorce with EU, and almost never ever meets her fiscal targets. And yet, UK, with its near 1000% debt-to-GDP ratio, is still viewed as the gold standard among safe havens. PRESENTING: The Rosetta Stone Of The Entire Sovereign Debt Crisis Why? Because UK issues debt in her own currency. And who prints the pound? The UK government.
英国的债务/GDP占比将近1000%而中国只是小于300%,其原因是其过于庞大的金融债务——政府最终将不得不为之站台。在此之上,英国没用可出售的资源,没有任何本国工业,正在脱离欧盟,而且英国基本上从来没有达成其财务目标。即使如此,英国仍然被某些传媒视为安全经济体的黄金标准。其原因就是英债都以英镑的方式结算。那么是谁印英镑的呢?英国政府。
Then you take a look at Japan, wow that’s 600%+ debt-to-GDP ratio! But - Japan’s debt is not only mostly internal, in Japanese Yen, but also with 0% or even negative interest. You can roll this kind of debt over practically forever. That’s why people have been yelling about Japanese debt for the last 20 years, and nothing happens.
然后你看看日本,将近600%的债务/GDP占比!但是,日本的债务几乎都是内部的,以日元的形式出售的债务,而且日本是0利率甚至是负利率。实际上这种债务你可以无限积累下去(经济常识:如果是负利率,政府只要保持债务不变,多出来的部分会自行消失)。这就是为啥人们对日债担心了20年但屁事没有发生。
Then you take a look at those economies that have blown up on debt:
Argentina: Government/Sovereign debt in USD, with jurisdiction in New York!Greece: Government/Sovereign debt in Euro, with jurisdiction in Brussels!Iceland: External financial debt → nationalized into Government/Sovereign debt in USD and Euro alone was 700%+ GDP in 2008, with jurisdiction in New York and Brussels.
然后你看看那些因债务问题毁掉的经济体:
阿根廷:政府/主权债务以美元形式结算,其裁判权在纽约!希腊:政府/主权债务以欧元方式结算,其裁判权在布鲁塞尔!冰岛:外部金融债务→债务国有化后2008年政府/主权债务以美元和欧元的形式达到GDP的700%,其裁判权在纽约和布鲁塞尔
Then you look at China, with her debt almost entirely internal, in Chinese RMB to Chinese citizens, government debt at 55%, lower than the US, Japan, and EU average, in her own currency. China’s external debt is about 9% of GDP, globally ranked 184th (less than North Korea, similar to Kosovo) - anyway you look at it, it’s hardly the kind of material to make a banking crisis. China is borrowing a little bit from her own piggy bank. Argentina/Greece/Iceland were borrowing a lot from the Mafia.
然后你看看中国,中国的债务基本都是内部以人民币结算的。中国政府债务只占总债务的55%,比美国,日本和欧盟都要低,再次强调,其债务以人民币结算。中国外部债务只占GDP的9%,全球排行184位(比朝鲜低,比科索沃高)。无论怎么看,你都不会看到中国有任何银行危机的迹象。中国只是向其国内贪心的银行借钱。阿根廷/希腊/冰岛可是像美国欧盟这些黑手党借钱。
PS: The most significant increase in China’s debt is in the financial sector, driven by rising real estate price (which means higher value of housing loans). Right now, the Chinese government is basically using it as a tool to do macro-economic engineering. The goal is to cap urban growth in top tier cities (Beijing, Shanghai, etc.) and push the economic growth to second- and third- tier cities (Hangzhou, the city that just hosted G20, is an example.http://www.g20.org/English/Hangzhou/About/index.html Now you can look back and see why the Chinese government decided to host G20 in a city nobody has ever heard of). This is clearly stated by the Chinese government like 100 times since last year in the official news channels. The reason? Top tier Chinese cities like Shanghai (25 million) already have more city residents than the whole nation of Australia! The metropolitan area of Shanghai (44 million) has more people than the entire population of Canada! In one city! Beijing’s population grew by 8 million within the last decade! The place is simply full.List of cities in China by population and built-up area
PS: 中国最显著的债务增长是在其金融领域内不断升高的房价造成的(不断增高的房贷造成债务问题)。现在中国政府正在利用房价作为宏观经济调控的工具。其目的是限制一线城市的城市化进程和加速二三线城市的发展(刚刚举办了G20的杭州就是个例子,现在你就能知道为啥中国政府将G20放在一个没人听说过的城市举行了)。这些政策中国政府已经在官媒上宣布了无数次。原因就是一线城市,例如上海(2500万人口),其居民数量比阿根廷全国人口还要多!上海都市圈(4400万人口)的人口数量比加拿大全国还要多!北京人口数量在过去的10年内增长了800万!这些城市的人口数量已经饱和了。
In addition to real estate prices, the Chinese government is also doing stuff like restricting residents permits, disallowing second or third homes, even restricting jobs to local residents, everything to say “this place is full. We have these other nice choices, with lower housing prices. Go there.” Young people complaining about housing prices in tier-one cities? But that’s the whole point. The debt you have to take on to live in tier-one cities SHOULD SCARE YOU OFF. The Chinese government is trying to stop the influx of people pouring into tier-one cities, and get these smart and energetic youths to go build two, three, four, five. … more Shanghai’s in other parts of China. 1.4 billion people can’t all fit into tier-one cities.
除了以房地产为手段,中国政府也加强控制了居住证的发放,禁止第二/三套房买入甚至对本地居民的工作种类进行限制,这些都是为了表达一个意思:这些地方都人满为患了。二三线城市有更低的房价和更好的生活条件,快点去那里吧!年轻人都在抱怨一线城市的高房价?但这就是中国政府想要的。你在一线城市生存需要的代价会把你吓退。中国政府正在尝试控制一线城市的人口流入而让有技术和充满活力的年轻人去建设二三四五线城市——让更多的上海出现在国家的其他地方。14亿人口是没可能全部都聚集在一线城市的。
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Paul Denlinger, Involved in China economics study
Written Sep 27


There is too much debt, and a lot of it is likely to turn into bad debt, but that does not equal a banking crisis.
是因为中国贷款太多了,而这些贷款大多数会变成不良贷款,但这些都不等银行危机
Banking crisis may be a nice term to bandy around and get clicks and headlines, but does not really explain what is going on.
银行危机或许是一个十分吸引眼球的头条,但是根本就不能解释实际的情况
There was a lot of debt financing, especially after the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis in the US. In order to keep the economy on a steady keel, the Chinese government, through its banks, pumped money to Chinese state-owned enterprises, in order to keep high employment and maintain an image of “growth”. A lot of this money then found its way into the underground banking system through “wealth management products” and other means. A lot of this has turned into bad debt.
中国政府有过很多次债务融资,特别是08年美国次贷危机之后。为了稳住经济增长,中国政府通过银行将大量人民币注入到国企内以维持就业率和高增长的形象。但这些钱最终大都以理财产品和其他形式流进了地下钱庄。这些大部分都变成了不良贷款。
Another problem area, which frequently overlaps with the “wealth management products” is the local government financing vehicle used to fund local property development, which I have discussed here: Paul Denlinger's answer to Why does China have so many ghost towns?
另一个有问题的领域,和“理财产品”有莫大关联的,就是地方政府为当地基础建设所采用的金融工具(我在这个地方有详细的分析:https://www.quora.com/Why-does-China-have-so-many-ghost-towns/answePaul-Denlinger?srid=tR&share=22b99cfc
What is likely to happen in China is that growth will slow down in some areas, while there will be certain newer parts of the economy which will continue to grow. If the Chinese government is able to support the newer parts of the economy and help them to grow, while cutting back on loans to the weaker parts of the economy, it may be able to handle this transition better.
最可能发生的情况就是中国的经济增长将会放缓,但是肯定会用新的增站点。如果中国政府能支持新的增长点而且能减低夕阳工业的不良贷款率,那么或许能更好地度过过渡期。
This is exactly what the Chinese government is trying to do and you can read about it here:Here is how China is going to quietly save its economy
这些正是中国政府正在尝试去做的,你可以读读这个文章了解一下:http://www.scmp.com/news/china/economy/article/2022491/china-deploys-policy-banks-stealth-mission-stimulate-growth
So, if you are expecting there to be a dramatic run on the banks, and the Chinese people to take to the streets and overthrow the Chinese Communist Party, and become a full-blown democracy like Taiwan, Japan or South Korea, you are very likely to be disappointed.
所以,如果你是期待一次强烈的bank run(自行百度啥是bank run),然后中国人民上街推翻TG,中国大陆变成与台湾,日本韩国一样的政体,那么你要失望了。
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Nikhil Ambhorkar, Self studied Finance.
Written Sep 26


Is China facing a Banking crisis?
中国是在面临一个银行危机吗?
Yes.

Is it facing a full blown Banking crisis?
中国正在面临一个全面性的银行危机吗?
No.

Combined debt of China is almost 300% of its GDP. But the the categorized in 4 parts as it is shown in the image with the question too.
中国的总债务大概是GDP的300%。但是分在了如图所示的4个领域内。
The corporate debt has the lion's portion of the total debt. The household debt and non corporate debt are nothing to worry about because it is less many other developed countries and has some room to grow.
公司债务在总债务中占了大头。个人债务和非公司债务根本没啥可担心的因为这些比大多数发达国家还要低所以还有增长的空间。
Government Debt is not too big when compared to standards set by many global institutions like IMF, World Bank, etc.
政府债务以多数国际组织,例如世行和IMF,设定得标准来看其实不高。
The only major concern which is of a serious magnitude is the corporate debt. This is also reiterated by many economists.
最主要的关注点就是公司债务了。许多经济学家都重申了这点无数次了。
Now the problem with China is that data that comes out of major Chinese institutions is murky so their are many different types of estimates by many different institutions but the common theme in it is corporate debt and its size.
中国最大的问题就是中国国内组织公布的数据来源不清晰所以不同的国际组织对中国经济的实际情况估算会不一样。但所有组织最关心的都是中国的公司债务与其规模。
Corporate debt consists of debt owned by state owned corporations and private corporations. Private corporations in China are generally crowded out by the state owned corporations because of connections and political agenda.
公司债务又分成了国企和私企的债务。中国私企大多数收到国企排挤,这是有政体造成的。
Many state owned corporations have invested into unproductive projects as a result of excess boost given by government after 2008 to prop up the economy. This has resulted in a huge amount of NPAs. So, in all the major problem is state owned corporations piling up huge amount of debt. To solve this problem, the government tried to convert the debt into shares which the bank owns and can recover money through profit dividends but this was one of the causes for last year's stock market crash.
在08年过度的经济刺激政策下,很多国企在许多无效益项目上投了许多钱。这造成了大量的无效能资产。所以,最大的问题是国企堆积了大量债务。为了解决这个问题,政府正在尝试将国企的债务转化为股份,那么银行就能将债务转化为红利而最终将债务收回了。但这造成了上年的股灾.....
Hence, it is a big crisis but not the one government cannot handle with so much trade surplus and forex reserves. But actions are definitely needed to stop it from growing into a bigger problem.
所以,这是一个危机但仍然是政府能控制的,毕竟中国政府有大量贸易顺差和外汇储备。但是仍然需要实际行动来防止事态的扩展。
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BlockChain Enable a Quadrillion-Dollar Derivatives Market?

BlockChain Enable a Quadrillion-Dollar Derivatives Market?
https://preview.redd.it/iwewapkg8mz11.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=9b52f51960172844af71917aec191dcfd6031bf9
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100% backed with Cash & Gold assets are actively managed by proved and tested AI risk management platform ARM the most stable Crypto Currency 100% exchangeable for 8 fiat Currencies (Cash) at the Issuer for 0% fee with X8X Tokens PROVEN PROVEN Risk management AI developed over 10 years for traditional FinTech, $1B in transactions since 2015.
SAFE SAFE Non-leveraged reserves in top 8 fiat currencies and gold provide unparalleled safety.
LIQUID LIQUID Fiat currency foundation enables daily volume in billions without affecting the price.
SECURE SECURE Triple-redundant Swiss architecture and gold reserves fully utilise the advantages of the Swiss financial ecosystem.
verified Our business partner verifies that this chart represents the holdings of a live account where all trades were executed by ARM AI. View reference here.
The ARM Portfolio risk management AI, which operates the reserves of the X8 currency, was developed over 10 years. It has been operational since 2015 and has generated a transaction volume of over $1 Billion for clients in the traditional financial industry.
8-Currencies-ARM-AI Fiat in X8 brings vast liquidity which can support speedy large transactions with little to no price impact. That means that X8 can scale globally and provide a sustainable solution as a financial system for more than 3,5bn people.
Together with friendly nature of X8 market operations, all participants in the value chain benefit from this constructive system.
X8 leverages the benefits of the Swiss financial ecosystem. Fiat funds deposited in the Swiss UBS AG, will be insured by SwissRE AG and audited daily by JP Fund Services. A store of gold currency in the safest certified storages outside the banking system serves as additional reserve for X8 currency.
Swiss-setup Road map
Team The team behind the X8 Currency blockchain product.
Gregor is behind some of the main design features of ioNectar platform. Gregor combined natural investment perspective with advanced technology capabilities of today into a winning philosophy match. His accumulated experience comes from working as portfolio manager in institutional environment, advising funds, HNWIs and specialists in foreign exchange and other markets.
GREGOR KOŽELJ CEO / Founder Tomaz with his long-term experience in business is responsible for executing the Sales strategy and tactics. The focus is to drive the business forward in creating stronger relationships, converting more prospects in gaining potential clients, increasing sales, creating operational efficiency, and lastly creating a fun and motivational environment.
TOMAŽ LEPOŠA CSO His experience with entrepreneurship, business organization and sales management has given him a valuable insight into business processes and development. His approach to team management and integration makes business operation a smooth and exciting experience.
ALY KULAUZOVIĆ Business development Rudolf Ströbl is a financial expert and program-developer with over 20 years of experience in various projects involving precious metals, options, equities and digital currencies. He has also developed models and algorithms in the Forex Markets. Currently he is the Managing Director of FX & Project Management GMBH in Switzerland. RUDOLF P. STRÖBL Infrastructure Francesca Greco has been a board member of several Private Equity Funds. Her focus are projects related to energy and telecommunications. She has been following closely the development of cutting-edge technologies of great potential. She is currently part of Green Brain Technologies team, where she is in charge of Government Relations and Regulatory Affairs.
FRANCESCA GRECO Legal Lenart manages and supervises legal aspects of the company's business. With experience at law office, he finds working in the area of finance an opportunity to expand his skills and understanding of legal dimensions of finance.
LENART KMETIČ Communications & Legal support Phil is an expert problem solver with a background in finance and communications. He has been a most welcome addition to the team, especially in terms of strategy and sharpening message clarity. He has more than 20 years of active experience in bringing together businesses from Western, Central and Eastern Europe by means of eliminating cultural differentiation.
PHIL LAWRENCE Communications An IT expert with years of participation in the world of cryptocurrencies. His experience in computer programming and knowledge of IT is a valuable contribution to the company. The products of ioNectar gave him an opportunity to employ his skills in a new and exciting way. He is also responsible for ICO communication.
ALEN OBERSTAR Communications With background in social sciences and focus on collapse of complex systems, he welcomed the opportunity to explore issues of financial stability. His passion for research led him to become one of the main contributors to the company's xfeed. He is also in charge of TGE communication.
DAVID PREŽELJ Communications Urban is a long-time cryptocurrency enthusiast with a passion for ICO/TGE research. With his expertise in developing and leading teams he has developed a strategic plan to achieve the successful launch of the X8 TGE project. His strategic vision has assisted in bringing together the existing talents of the X8 team in a coherent manner.
URBAN ALJANČIČ TGE / ICO project manager Simon is a seasoned computer expert with an extensive range of programing skills in different computer languages. As the CTO of ioNectar he knows the area of the platform client and manages technological releases of the product. He is creativity driven with insight in new products development and is behind different original aspects of the platform.
SIMON HOHLER CTO Ervin is a specialist in IT. He brings together his broad technical proficiency from computer science and manages all main IT administration perspectives of ioNectar. Work in specialized software and electronics product solutions is his passion which he has been following. Through persistent expansion of his ability Ervin proved many times he is an IT authority.
ERVIN MARGUČ CIO A computer programmer proficient in several computer languages. He is involved in developing the key components of the ioNectar technology. He is eager to use his knowledge to build bridges between blokchain technology and the world of traditional finance.
ERGIM RAMADAN IT Sofia is in charge of visual presentations and design strategies at ioNectar. The dedicated and enthusiastic team around her created the right environment for her to express her artistic sensibilities and passion for aesthetics in every aspect of the company's presentations.
SOFIA KULAUZOVIĆ Corporate look & design Advisory Board The team behind the X8 Currency blockchain product.
Peter Kristensen is the CEO of JP Integra LLC US, an international finance service group providing administrative and management services to owners and managers of international private capital. PETER KRISTENSEN Financial specialist Olaf Chalmer is a financial advisor with decades of experience in the banking sector who, among other things, offers guidance to investors in financial sector. Currently he is the president of the Swiss Management, Ltd, a consulting company oriented towards clients from Eastern Europe. OLAF CHALMER B2B placement A progressive investment professional with more than 2 decades of experience in top level banks. Mikkel is advising globally on interest rate and FX risk and manages alpha driven G10 portfolios. He is running independent trading & advisory business, is also a specialist in market making and sits on several investment management boards. MIKKEL THORUP Foreign exchange field Marcus von Goetz is a seasoned bondspecialist and trader. During his career he held key bondstrading positions at several prominent financial institutions. He is also a financial advisor for larger market participants. Currently his expertise is available to institutional clients and venture capital entrepreneurs through VG&S Business Development. MARCUS VON GOETZ Business development With a background in finance and an enthusiasm for blockchain technology attorney Peter Merc PhD is the ideal legal consultant for TGEs. He is a member of the supervisory board of Slovenian systemic bank and cofounder of Lemur Legal, a legal company promoting digital transformation. He helps transform TGEs in legally compliant enterprises. PETER MERC, PH.D. Legal advice Simon Cocking is a seasoned business mentor to TGEs and a senior editor at Irish Tech News. He is also an experienced public speaker at events including TEDx and Web Summit. He is a crypto connoisseur and has to date successfully advised and mentored 18 TGEs. He has also founded six prosperous companies. SIMON COCKING Digital Marketing Branko Drobnak is a former investment banker with more than 25 years of experience in finance and entrepreneurship. This background combined with his enthusiasm for ICO research and investment provides valuable insights to the X8 project. BRANKO DROBNAK Strategic advice
EXCHANGE LIST
Binance
Huobi
Kucoin
Bibox
Qryptos
Satoexchange
BIGone
Bitrue
Bilaxy
Bit-Z
Linkcoin
SECURE WALLET
Ledgerwallet
Trezor
submitted by icoinformation to X8XToken [link] [comments]

Yes, Virginia, China has the world's largest economy

This is not a piece of news but I keep seeing confusion as to whether the U.S. or China is the world's largest economy.
According to nominal GDP calculated at exchange rates, the U.S. economy is 75% bigger than China's, but according to GDP adjusted for purchasing power (as measured by the IMF's ICP program), China's economy is slightly bigger.
PPP is the better measure. Nominal GDP comparisons take the size of an economy, as measured in domestic currency, converts it at market exchange rates to another country's currency, and then sees which number is higher, effectively. This is a nonsensical comparison because the exchange rate used is entirely determined on the forex market, and the only people who trade in these markets are people who want to acquire tradeable goods. That is, the only reason why a person living in America would hold RMB theoretically is if he wants to acquire something made in China. But lots of things made in China (such as haircuts) can't be consumed by this American, so the value of receiving the potential haircut doesn't factor into how the American values his RMB. To put it another way, if your country's only export is oil, and the price of oil drops 50%, your country's currency on forex markets will also drop roughly 50%, since only oil is demanded from your country, and that's the only reason why foreigner would ever acquire your currency. The fact that you might also be producing tons of housing, health care, and services that are never exported is not taken into account.
What PPP does is it takes into account a basket of goods that represent both tradeable (the oil; or exports) and nontradeable (the services, housing) sectors of the economy and weight them based on an estimated share of the economy they occupy. It is a less precise measure, but it is more accurate than not trying to take into account the nontradeable sectors at all. Nominal GDP also defies common sense because there are many examples such as the Euro depreciating 20% against the dollar between 2011 and today; does that mean Eurozone economies have lost 20% of their output? Of course not. Or even more absurd measures such as the Japanese yen surging after the Fukushima disaster; did getting hit by a devastating tsunami somehow create an instant economic boom in Japan? Absurd.
There are a lot of people out there (including China's government, to strengthen their hand in global warming negotiations) who vigorously don't want to believe that the People's Republic of China has the world's largest economy. One of the last-ditch attempts they've made to thread the common sense holes in their argument is to claim that PPP is better for measuring living standards, but nominal GDP is better for measuring the size of total economies. National economies however, are just aggregates of the output of individuals living in them. If I can feed 11 people with a certain living standard and you can feed only 6 people with the same living standard, how can you say your economy is bigger? PPP was developed because nominal GDP measures were deficient.
This does not mean that China is economically superior to the U.S. or that China is ahead of the U.S. The U.S. is still ahead of China, and part of the reason for that is the U.S.'s more developed and legalistic economic structure, friendlier environment for new businesses, freer immigration policy, and more advanced research universities. Americans don't have to worry about a "China threat." But China is the first non-Western country to have a larger economy than any Western country in the modern age, and that's an accomplishment worth acknowledging, even if neither the Chinese government nor the Western press will.
submitted by asianblazin to Sino [link] [comments]

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